What Elliot Rodger did on the evening of Friday, May 23, 2014, isn’t contested, but the reason he did it is. That night Rodger knocked on the door of a sorority house near the University of California, Santa Barbara, and when the women inside didn’t let him in, he left and shot three women who were on the sidewalk, and then continued the rampage, ultimately killing six people and injuring fourteen. He then shot and killed himself.

Before the attacks, Rodger posted a video of himself online, declaring that he intended to punish women for not giving him the attention he felt he deserved—and the men whom he perceived as receiving that attention and therefore envied. In light of the evidence, a number of feminist commentators called the killing spree an act of misogyny, part of a pattern of gender-based rampages. But others in the media and the academy argued differently. They claimed the cause was mental illness.

It was then that Kate Manne, an assistant professor of philosophy at Cornell University, started to write. What was missing from the debate, Manne thought, was a clear account of the nature of misogyny, and so she set out to develop one. The result is her new book, Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny, a carefully argued work aimed at a broad audience, which proposes that misogyny is the act of correcting women who fail to give men what men believe they’re due. 

Manne tosses out the common thinking that misogyny is equivalent to despising all women, and instead offers that it’s a way to keep women in their place. Misogyny, she writes, is “the system that operates within a patriarchal social order to police and enforce women’s subordination and to uphold male dominance.” Like a shock collar used to keep dogs behind an invisible fence, misogyny, she argues, aims to keep women—those who are well trained as well as those who are unruly—in line. The power of Manne’s definition comes from its ability to bring together various behaviors and events under one umbrella. If misogyny is anything that enforces women’s subordination, then it turns out that lots of phenomena fit the profile.

I spoke with Manne over the phone in an attempt to shed some light on this past year, during which so many brave women have come forward to share their experiences of sexual trauma and have actually been taken seriously. The moment is ripe for a reckoning, and Manne offers the language and theory I’ve found myself grasping for. Originally from Melbourne, Australia, she combines the hyper-articulateness of a philosopher and the energy and humor of a down-to-earth millennial, which is electrifying; I imagine she’s a popular professor. At one point during our call, her corgi happily barked in the background, and she pointed out that her dog “couldn’t be silenced” by the patriarchy.

More than anything, I could feel an urgency on the line. Manne is restlessly driven by a sense that things are not right, a sense that this world is a very unjust place for women. She doesn’t think she can fix it. “I’m much more a clarity person than a solutions person,” she says. But she does believe that philosophy can help us understand what’s at stake in the broader fight to overcome patriarchy. “It’s so far from cessation,” she says, “but I’m not despairing.”

Regan Penaluna for Guernica

Guernica: Why did you write a book about misogyny?

Kate Manne: “Misogyny” wasn’t on my radar until October 2012, when the prime minister of Australia, Julia Gillard, used it in a speech before parliament to call out Tony Abbott, the then opposition party leader, for his sexist and misogynist behavior. Although Gillard’s speech went viral, the occasion for her anger was lost on many people. Abbott had originally demanded Gillard call for the resignation of one of her ministers, who had sent text messages leaked to the media likening women’s genitals to mussels—shucked, he specified—and calling a female colleague an “ignorant botch,” thanks to the Freudian intervention of auto-correct. But Gillard did not want to have to call on Slipper [the minister] to resign; to her mind, he was still a serviceable minister. And she was not sanguine about being “lectured,” as she put it, by Abbott on fitting conduct with regards to gender.

When Gillard’s speech became news, I was interested to realize that “misogyny” wasn’t one of my words—to the extent that I couldn’t remember ever having used it, or even having heard it discussed at length by analytic feminist philosophers. And this despite just having finished a PhD in a philosophy department that is a research hub in that area.

“Misogyny” is also a word that I could have used earlier on in life, as I came to realize later. As one of three girls to attend a hitherto all-boys’ school, I experienced a fair amount of what I now think of as misogynist hostility. “Bitch,” “slut,” and “cunt” were common epithets inscribed in permanent marker on my locker, which was also doused with fish oil to express a disgust of the vagina. I didn’t understand the meaning of the olfactory slur back then, and had to have it explained to me, much to my embarrassment. I experienced other derogations and #metoo moments almost daily. It was against this backdrop that l ultimately came to think misogyny needed a thorough theoretical treatment, after the shootings by Rodger in May 2014.

It wasn’t just what happened that gripped me with horror, though that was certainly part of it. It was also the difficulty of pointing out the gendered nature of the hateful violence plainly, without its importance and systematicity being denied or at least minimized. If not here and now, then when?

Guernica: You also write about a gruesome scene from the TV series Fargo, in which the male protagonist bashes in the face of his wife because the washing machine broke. You felt there was something morally wrong about the presentation by the show makers, and were disturbed by your inability to articulate why. What do you think now?

Kate Manne: Yeah, that’s exactly right. I think what that episode demonstrates most, which I took even longer to articulate, is “himpathy.” The premise of that first episode and the way it gets you hooked is the idea that you will identify enough with his point of view, both literally and metaphorically, to be invested in his fate, and his escaping law enforcement. At the end, his wife is presented as a nagging bitch whom he shuts up.

[His act of violence] is represented as anomalous. It might be anomalous to have Elliot Rodger, in particular, lash out at a sorority house, or this guy in this fictional case in Fargo kill a woman for mocking him about a washing machine repair. But the broader pattern of lashing out because of that feeling that women haven’t been giving enough—that’s everywhere.

Misogyny is the stuff that women face that destroys them in some instances. “Himpathy” is part of the explanation of why we don’t see it, because we’re identifying with “him” and seeing “him” as the good guy, or worrying about “his” future. We don’t see him as taking a life. We see him as asserting his masculinity or defending himself, or as a poor pathetic character, or as vulnerable. Sometimes these things are true, that he is pathetic and vulnerable, but let’s focus on the women.

Guernica: You disagree with defining misogyny as a psychologically motivated phenomenon. Why?

Kate Manne: Yeah. I think it would make misogyny a virtually nonexistent problem. I think it’s based on a stereotypical view of anti-Semitism. It’s just false that Nazis hated all Jews. Like, that was the rhetoric, but you have Eichmann with a Jewish mistress and Jewish family members. There’s a general myth about prejudice, that it’s going to be leveled toward any and every member of a certain historically subordinate class, rather than that it’s something that comes out as a method for enforcing and policing social hierarchies.

So, the first move that I make in defining misogyny is to make it something that needn’t target any and every woman. I understand it not as this psychological property of individuals, but as something that women and girls face, not because they’re women in a man’s mind, but because they’re women in a man’s world. And they’re either represented as, or actually seen as, the epitome of girls and women who are transgressing the norms and expectations of the patriarchy that misogyny polices, enforces, and keeps in place.

Guernica: What are the different ways that misogyny discourages women from challenging the patriarchy?

Kate Manne: I think silencing is a big part of it. And silencing can mean replacing anything unpleasant to the patriarchal collective consciousness with pleasantries—like saying, “He’s a good guy.” And it can mean not speaking out, or defending him, as well as not testifying to his misdeeds.

But I think it takes so many forms that it’s almost difficult to catalog. Basically, take any hierarchy that people care about, like aesthetic, or women’s bodies, or women’s intellect, or women’s moral goodness, or women’s moral status, and you can punish someone or threaten someone with the prospect of being down-ranked according to that hierarchy. Or you can just express anger and lash out in a way that’s a more direct kind of shock to the system. It can be a low-grade, unpleasant vibration, like disapproval. Or it can be the really huge outbursts of violence and the shocks that burn, and are on their own called trauma.

Guernica: You argue that sexism and misogyny aren’t the same thing. Misogyny enforces patriarchal norms, whereas sexism rationalizes them—for example, by arguing for gender differences, especially where men come out superior to women. There are scientific studies suggesting that men and women think differently, feel differently, or generally perceive the world differently due to biological differences. I don’t think that the scientists who conduct these studies would call their own research sexist. I think they’d say that they’re merely observing nature, and that to call nature sexist is a categorical error. What would you say to them?

Kate Manne: I think a lot of that science is bad science. There’s no control group in a patriarchal culture. There’s no group of women raised such as not to have sexist theories and misogynistic enforcement mechanisms operating on them. Of course some differences will show up. But it doesn’t lead to an enhanced kind of epistemic state, where we know something interesting and new about two different groups. So it’s not knowledge producing science.

One thing that these pieces of scientific research do is they end up conserving the null hypothesis of no difference. You know, by showing some sex difference, they then make it seem like less of a concern if women are underrepresented, say, in philosophy. They make it seem like, well, that’s just what we’d expect. It’s also used to continue to rationalize exclusion, and say, “Yeah, it’s not a big worry.” We don’t have to worry about sexual harassment in philosophy, or the subtle exclusion mechanisms of great philosophers, or syllabi that are totally dominated by white men. Because women just aren’t as into philosophy. But come look at my intro philosophy classes! They’re, like, 60 percent women and 30 percent women of color. I really think, anecdotally, we can do better.

Guernica: What is it like writing a book about misogyny in philosophy, a field that is historically hostile to women and in which even today women are greatly underrepresented?

Kate Manne: Because misogyny divides women into good women and bad women, I feel like—partly due to things like white privilege, class privilege, having a professor father who taught me to sort of talk the academic talk—I’ve been treated as one of the “good ones.”

Here’s an anecdote that I actually haven’t told anyone beyond philosophy. I have a background in logic, which I think helps, because it’s heavily masculine-coded. One of the first times I gave a talk based on the first few chapters of the book, it was at a university where a very prominent feminist philosopher had recently died. And after the talk, one of the faculty members compared me to this recently deceased feminist philosopher, [who was] his colleague of many years. And he said, “I think you’re much better than her. I think you’re a real philosopher.”

And that was my second year as an assistant professor, so I couldn’t make the equivalent of the vomit-face emoji. I just kind of stopped in my tracks at how lacking in self-awareness, and how morally hideous, what he’d just done was. I just asked him what he meant by that. And it turned out he felt like his colleague had done mostly sociology, and somehow he thought that I was doing philosophy, because of the distinctions I’d made.

Why is philosophy an honorific? We should just be talking about what’s interesting, and there’s lots of stuff, sociologically and psychologically, that is worth talking about. [What he did] is just another way in which hierarchies are enforced. Philosophy is masculine-coded, but thinks of itself as the ultimate humanity.

Guernica: You’re critical of the argument that misogyny is a problem because women aren’t treated as human. In fact, you argue that women are treated as “all too human.” What do you mean by that?

Kate Manne: Yeah, that’s just the wrong metaphor. I feel like it’s just really implausible that women wouldn’t be seen as human, because there’s no spatial segregation. And women have been having human babies for men. It’s also so exonerating for men, like, “Oh, if they only just got it.” No. What’s to get? Here we women are talking, walking, writing, being athletes and comedians, and trying pretty much every human activity that is known to mankind. Pun intended. And men freak out when women do human things. It’s not that men don’t get it, it’s that they don’t welcome human equality.

The other part of it, too, is that I think [this metaphor] misses that violence doesn’t need an elaborate psychological explanation. Men do violence to women all the time as a method of enforcing norms or punching down. It’s just not true that people have these huge inhibitions when it comes to violence. Like, maybe with people they don’t know, but with people whom they’re intimate with, and want to express resentment against, it’s ubiquitous.

Guernica: You also touch upon “misogynoir.” Can you say more?

Kate Manne: “Misogynoir” is [the scholar] Moya Bailey’s term for the potent intersection of anti-black racism and misogyny faced by African American women in the US. One example of misogynoir that I write about in my book is the case of Daniel Holtzclaw, formerly a police officer in Oklahoma City, who preyed on black women—often those who were also further vulnerable in that they were sex workers, poor, and/or were known by the police to have drug addiction issues. Holtzclaw was ultimately convicted of eighteen counts of sexual assault—including sexual battery, rape, and forcible oral sodomy—against these women. The jury, which found him guilty of these crimes, sentenced Holtzclaw to 263 years in prison. The convictions only represented eight of his thirteen accusers. But the white feminist silence around the case in the press, at least initially, was telling—and, I argue, shameful.

So in the book I’ve tried to speak mostly as a white woman who can very easily be made complicit in not only misogyny in general, but misogynoir in particular. But also, I’ve tried to make it clear that I think there’s a crucial need for continuing to theorize misogynoir in academic philosophy, especially due to the extreme absence of a sufficient number of people of color in general [in the field], and black women in particular. We need more voices on the subject. And I think the same applies to trans misogyny, too. We need more trans voices urgently.

Guernica: You also write about how Hillary Clinton’s loss in the 2016 presidential election was due in large part to misogyny. What’s your thinking there?

Kate Manne: The question I’m interested in is how we got to that point, and why I think it was predictable. It was so obvious. The thing is, people think the rhetoric is unique to Clinton, and it’s just not. It’s the same thing we said about Julia Gillard [the former prime minister of Australia]. You know: bitch, witch, liar. She was seen as so fake, like a nest of Russian dolls. She has many masks, but who has seen her face? There were also complaints about her voice. Endless complaints about her breaking promises and being corrupt, such that she was even brought up on these bogus corruption charges after she left office.

Guernica: So Clinton’s loss is an example of a woman trying to punch above her station, but failing because misogyny forced her down?

Kate Manne: Exactly. Hierarchies are really, really hard to shift. And people don’t realize they’re post-hoc rationalizing when they use values like competence or likeability, just to keep [the male opponent] up.

Guernica: You talk about how despite Trump’s blatant misogyny the majority of white women voters supported him. There was also a lot of support among white women for Roy Moore, the republican candidate for the Alabama senate, who was accused by numerous women of sexual assault. You write in your book, “Misogyny works to disrupt female solidarity, especially among white women.” Why is that?

Kate Manne: I was so angry after the election. But it’s important to be clear that white men are worse, and are more to blame.

About 90 percent of white women who are partnered with men are partnered with white men, and that’s according to the most recent Pew statistics I’ve seen. It could have shifted slightly, but that just gives an indication of how homogenous white women’s preferences are, and how racist. If you hold fixed, both in time and also as a causal explanatory factor, that white men were the vast majority of Trump supporters, you see women falling into line with these white men in support of Trump. White women doing that, it feels like such a betrayal. And it sucks so much. And I feel so ashamed of it.

On the other hand, the book shows what’s at stake in resisting white supremacist patriarchy, which is misogyny of the most brutal kind that’s visited partly on more vulnerable women, women of color, but also on white women within these racially homogenous and patriarchal partnerships.

Guernica: What about misogyny in art and literature—how should we address it? Not just artists who are or might be labeled misogynist, but also the portrayals of women that are misogynist. The traditional argument is that some of these works are beyond moral reproach because they’re genius.

Kate Manne: I’ve overlooked so many problems that are not just moral, but artistic. Iris Murdoch, who’s a philosopher I just love, thought of morality as the battle to see what’s real, and to strip away the gossamer tissue of seeing the world in a way that is self-centered and egocentric.

I think there’s so much truth in that. It’s often the case now that I’ll see or read something that I used to think of as great. There are artists that rate as incredibly crude, and [indulge] male fantasies. There’s often a premise in these conversations that it is great art, and that we haven’t overestimated it. But I think oftentimes that we have overestimated it, because it has this element of just centering around one kind of person’s story, and one kind of person’s voice. And the other thing is, it’s such a good opportunity to branch out, because there’s so much underestimated art made by women of color that just hasn’t been really attended to.

Guernica: Now that the book is done, what are you working on?

Kate Manne: I’m interested in gaslighting. In misogyny from the inside, from the perspective of the gaslit, someone who fears being morally punished—not just being treated as bad, but being bad for doing things that are in reality just fine. Like saying no to sex. I guess I’m really talking about all of the ways in which women don’t know our own wills or minds, and also in which women [are encouraged] to act against them because of social control structures.

Regan Penaluna

Regan Penaluna is a senior editor at Guernica. You can find her @reganpenaluna.

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53 Comments on “Kate Manne: The Shock Collar That Is Misogyny

  1. This put me back together today after an accumulation of fragmenting hostility. Deepest thanks. I can’t wait to start your book. I expect to enshrine it next to Simone de Beauvoir.

  2. Thank you for clarifying this term. It wasn’t on my radar either, until recently, and I’ve not been able to get a handle on it until reading this interview. I’m looking forward to reading Kate Manne’s book.

  3. “Men do violence to women all the time as a method of enforcing norms or punching down”.

    Bad Men do violence to women, indeed. They also do violence to men. I would be careful not to impugn 3.5 billion individuals on the planet on the basis of the violent acts of some of them. I am not Elliot Rogder. I am not a Nazi. I am not oppressing anybody and I would never in my life hurt anybody – man, woman, dog, deer, child etc.

    “and you can punish someone or threaten someone with the prospect of being down-ranked according to that hierarchy”. Here’s something that’s news to you: Men are also judged on the basis of their looks, intelligence, humor, strength etc. It is not only women who are competing in a hierarchy, that’s just part of being a human being.

    “I think a lot of that science is bad science.” You have just dismissed out-of-hand decades of research by 1000s of scientists. In another debate you might be called a climate denier.

    “And men freak out when women do human things” Not this one or any that I know in my actual life. How about yours?

        1. Because all men benefit from rape culture. They are on that train and have a vested interest in it staying on its current course.

    1. Meh, the good old ‘not all men’ argument. Why don’t you stand down for once and listen to other voices, others’ experiences. What you’ve said contributes nothing, though I’m sure you think it has contributed precious and valuable information, which is precisely part of the problem. When equality comes, it’s going to feel to you like you’ve lost ground, some standing, because you’re used to so much privilege at the expense and silence of others, and you’re just going to have to live with that and get used to it.

      1. It is a good argument because it is true and you have provided no evidence against it. All you did was point out that it is not an original argument. I concede that I am not the first person to come up with this argument, that makes it no less true.

        “Why don’t you stand down for once and listen to other voices, others’ experiences.” Can’t I listen and also voice my own opinion? Am I not allowed to post messages on comment sections of articles? How long are men everywhere supposed to be silent? How does this help debate/discussion, by ruling out half of the world’s population on the basis of their gender? How can you possibly justify telling someone to “stand down” on the basis of their gender?

        “When equality comes, it’s going to feel to you like you’ve lost ground, some standing”. I believe in equality, do you know me personally? Are you aware of how I would react to “equality”?

        Let me clarify one thing. Your definition of equality requires that in order for one group to gain something, another group must lose something. In other words there is only so much “equality” to go around and for too long rich, white men have hogged all of it.

        This is a simplistic understanding of what equality is. Equality means different things to certain people. There are broadly two types in circulation to day: “equality of outcomes” and “equality under the law”. Let’s focus on the latter. Extending equal rights to a new group does not make my life any harder (assuming I already have the right). For example, legalizing gay marriage does not make it harder for a heterosexual couple to marry. This is something I wholeheartedly endorse.

        Please actually read my comment and don’t just dismiss it with `Meh’ or mansplaining or whatever other tactic allows you to disregard the actual content.

          1. I know… I spit out my coffee when I read that line. Perhaps instead of immediately going on the defensive, some of these “NAM” could open their minds instead of their mouths and actually become allies.

        1. LP did not say you WOULD be losing ground, merely that it would feel that way to you. That corrected, most of the rest of your speech was unnecessary. How long are men supposed to be silent? I don’t know. Maybe just try for a few moments and we’ll see how it goes.

        2. “How long are men everywhere supposed to be silent?”
          Can you give one example where men shut their mouths for a few minutes, stood in silence and listened to women?

        3. That wasn’t a low-flying aircraft, that was just the point sailing over your head.

          There’s an important conversation going on about sexism, privilege, and systemic structures of oppression, but you want to make it all about you and your hurt feelings and what a nice guy you are and how you’re not like those other men. It’s called derailing.

      2. I think he is using this “old” argument because it is accurate. Very few men commit such violence and none benefits from it. Most regular men hate these violent men (they hurt/kill guys more often) so regular men who become lawyers and leaders make laws to try to keep these violent men in jail. Doesn’t always work. Sometimes they become presidents. But most are in jail.
        Your last sentence (assuming not meant ironically) can be spoken by most Americans because we all ignore our own privilege so we (or our group) can feel like Rocky. Meh.

    2. Here comes the disgusting mansplainer that tries to discredit the article while in reality super confirms the issues raised. Thanks for proving the points of the article.

      1. Ouch. Disgusting is a strong word. Was that directed at me? Look, if you think I am disgusting or what I wrote is disgusting, I am not sure what to say to you.

        Perhaps try meditation?

      1. And like, are you a philosopher too? You know, the kind who are required to follow the complicated and rigorous rules of their discipline? Or do you mean like you, who like, you know, just dismisses her off-hand, with absolutely no rigor and no rules of argument. Okaaaay!

    3. Maybe you just feel that she dismissed them, because you dont like or agree with her conclusions or opinions..i doubt an academic as her self would ever publish a book if it wasn’t in fact based on a well researched hypothesis/theory, or even just her opinion or take, all of which she is, in fact, entitled to not only think and believe but also express. You are also entitled to an opinion..however the fact that you seem to feel entitled to carelessly dismiss an articulate, educated, respected women and her opinion/believes or conclusions of the gender dynamics or the expression of such says so much more about you, to anyone reading your words and objections, than the total sum of your reactive, emotional “shock collar” comment said about this truly deep and articulate women

  4. “About 90 percent of white women who are partnered with men are partnered with white men, and that’s according to the most recent Pew statistics I’ve seen. It could have shifted slightly, but that just gives an indication of how homogenous white women’s preferences are, and how racist.”

    I think it’s unfair to deem this racist. Isn’t it more likely that these white women happened to go to majority-white schools in majority-white towns, and thus based on pure numbers they’re more likely to end up marrying white?

    1. Racism is why there are majority-white schools in majority-white towns to begin with. Racism is not individuals disliking other individuals because of their race. Instead, racism is the system that maintains the status quo.

    2. I took the thought to just be that racism must be playing a significant driving factor if white *women* were aligning their preferences with *white* men in voting for an out-and-out racist misogynist. If racism weren’t a factor, then women had compelling reason to prefer a candidate who wasn’t a clear-cut misogynist over one who was. (Of course, we can imagine scenarios where other factors than race or gender also contribute to decisions, but so long as racism is still even a *slight* factor, one’s preferences are still racist: “I quite liked the racism, of course, but those economic policies are really what got me going!” — not a very compelling case of non-racist preferences.)

    3. The claim that most white women couple with white men because of institutionalized racism is factually wrong. Everything in genetics suggests that people are predisposed to be more sexually attracted to partners of the same race.

      What qualifies as “racism” today has been watered down to the point of meaninglessness. Overall, I was tremendously disappointed by the views presented in this interview

  5. @Anna the fact that there are more of one ethnicity than another in a particular geographical location does not imply “racism” on the part of anyone involved.

    In your last two sentences you have redefined the word racism into something more like the word “conservativism”.

    If you could explain this system, how it works, how it maintains the status quo, who is in charge etc, then that would be nice.

    1. I don’t see how that fact *alone* implies anything about any of the individuals currently living in those locations. But I think we have to work very hard (at least in America) to develop a theory of how geographic locations became racially segregated that *doesn’t* imply explicit racism on the parts of those involved. The history is pretty clear, there!

      As for the explanation you ask for, don’t you think it’s a bit much to require all the evidence that you ask for (in an online comment thread, no less!)? It seems like your request implies (a) that such an explanation can’t be given and (b) that the fact that an explanation can’t be given implies that race can’t be systemic. But, with respect to (a), there are surely *hundreds* of books and articles that offer explanations of systemic racism (even giving particular examples!). And with respect to (b), even if after familiarizing yourself with all of those accounts, you still remained unconvinced that there is a plausible systemic account of racism, the absence of a plausible explanation of how racism is systemic isn’t evidence that racism (a term for which you yourself haven’t offered a definition, it seems) is *not* systemic. At the very least, we’d need a plausible account of non-systemic racism. Do you have one in mind?

      1. Why would I need to offer a definition of the term racism? Do we need to define every word we use? I assumed you were a user of the English language, as such when you used racism in a way which reminded me more of the word conservativism, I was surprised, hence why I asked.

        On the subject of words, what do you (and others) mean by systemic? Does it mean systematic? Does it mean widespread? Does it mean hidden? Is the racism you speak of hidden, systematic, widespread? I’m honestly curious. I hear systemic racism occasionally and it is never clear to me what that means.

        You mention 100s of books. That’s great! Just provide me with one sentence/paragraph summary of the most glaring example of systemic racism in the USA. That’s all I ask for.

          1. FYI I think MRAs are pathetic.

            In a debate one must provide facts and evidence to support one’s case – within the debate. Telling your adversary to “do your own research” means you are either lazy or you have no evidence.

        1. Systemic X’s are phenomena that are not anchored in individual attitudes or intentions but in structural features of social institutions.
          Given that we are discussing the troubling phenomenon of segregation along class & race lines: there is apparently a much lower density of banks in black areas in the US than in white areas. Instead predatory financial institutions (not even the mob) jump into the market gap, making it expensive to use money for residents. This then reproduces the fact that they live in these areas because they could not afford to move away. Or, the poor black areas of SF do not have proper grocery stores, only liquor stores with some trash food on offer – I’m just conjecturing but I’d educatedly guess there’s plenty of diabetes and overweight going round.
          Some of these systemically racist institutions happen by accident, others are partially intentional, take voter-ID laws aimed at suppressing the black vote; or the war on drugs.

    2. “the fact that there are more of one ethnicity than another in a particular geographical location does not imply “racism” on the part of anyone involved.”

      It depends on the population and region. In the US, which is the country I’m familiar with, there are a large number of practices that led to racially segregated communities. Look up “redlining.” Redlining is racist.

  6. This is a wonderful piece, and a useful definition of misogyny as a status-maintaining mechanism. But the fact that people talk about the Hillary Clinton loss without mentioning that she was married to a man who had a very credible rape allegation against him also seems like a strange form of silencing and ignoring. There was much to respect about Hillary Clinton, and many of the attacks on her driven by sexism. But I think liberals, who categorically dismiss and ignore Juanita Broaddrick, may have missed the impact of trotting out Juanita Broaddrick a couple of weeks before the election in terms of white women who were swing voters. We all have our blind spots, yes. The fact that Broaddrick’s story is very credible — and usually ignored — is one of the big blind spots among feminists.

    1. But it raises the question of why white women who were offended by Juanita Broaddrick’s accusations enough to swing their votes from Hillary Clinton instead swung towards a man with three rape or attempted rape accusations against him – one by his ex wife, one by Jane Doe who was 13 years old at the time, and one by Jill Harth. In addition he has over a dozen sexual assault allegations against him. Why is the WIFE of someone who was accused of rape disqualified, but someone actually accused of rape HIMSELF should be elected president?

  7. WHY has not anyone asked why it is that WOMEN are the greatest mysoginists on the face of this planet .. and have such derogatory approach to their own gender..?????

    1. Actually I found this article’s premise of a system of ‘punching down’ a perfect way to frame why women are also misogynists in a hierarchical way. It’s all driven by ‘himpathy’. Perfect word. Jorge, maybe re-read the premise again and let it sink in without reacting.
      On the whole discussion on men sitting back and not jumping into a debate when presented with opinions or evidence or simple first-hand accounts of women’s experience in the world….that would mean the opposite notion of ‘herpathy’ or ‘theypathy’ could be an overriding discipline when the urge to argue arises.

    2. Because children are sponges. girls who are often encouraged to be more sedentary and quite tend to end up being around adults more, to help with domestic tasks, more than their Male peers are..they hear all to well the derogatory, dismissive, condescending, sexist, sexualized ways in which women are spoken about or to..not to mention parents, especially fathers toxic reminders that boys and men are only after one thing, and only want one thing from women, blah, blah..I’m sure most women have learned that couldn’t be further from truth, and most women likely thinking, ahhhhhh if only men wanted just sex from women..hahahaha its laughable actually..no they want a “freak with limited to no sexual experience”, pure, good, submissive, obiedeiant, fun, sexy, admiring female who looks up to and respects them (seem to anyone else, like they are seeking a child)friend, therapist, confidant, cheerleader, baby factory, built in daycare,personal chef..anyway in an attempt to not be viewed or spoke about in certain ways. Women try to be the good ones, cuz well daddy’s girl,an all.. by which they embark on other-ism: see the ( cool, chill, beautiful girlfriend, wife)..and ofcourse mothers teach (not so much now)and police daughters on the ways of men, as to be pleasing to men, and not make trouble,
      for fear of her being left behind, that would require lifetime financial support of the daughter…like the author mentions that no one escapes it, there is no control group with socialized patriarchy..when she articulates that absence of a control, should call into question “scientific” studies..so many of such studies are based on humans verbal answer to questions, some of which are suffocating in biases..yup, because humans are so damn honest right? No we are so unique in the animal kingdom because we can/do lie, aka talking/conversations..ya well married people, when asked if they are happily married, will answer yes..ONLY when their spouse is also present, when absent the percentage drops drastically..

  8. All I have read in the past year in numerous magazines and newspaper articles has been an endless complaint about how patriarchal and misogynistic all men are, how they demean, mistreat, abuse, rape, and kill women, how they benefit from the patriarchal culture to maintain their unfair domination over women. Women, on the other side, are described as innocent and harmless victims – perfect angels.

    Are these the women I have met in my life? How about the women who who bore eternal grudges against me, who mistreated me, who harassed me, who abused me, who made my life miserable?

    It is my experience that almost all women are trouble and an unnecessary complication in a man’s life. I don’t have the time and space to describe here how difficult it is for men to deal with the women – how much they need to put up with for almost nothing in return. Women are an unnecessary evil, and it is my conviction after years and years of multiple personal experiences that a man must be a fool in order to seek and maintain a relationship with a woman.

    I would prefer to live in segregated world – both at work and in the society at large, but I know that the women would oppose it. The issue is one of control, and what women blame men for – the men’s desire for control – seems to be in fact the hidden agenda of all women – to control and subject the men in their sphere of influence.

    To hell with the women!

    1. You sound entitled. The mere fact that you said “how much they need to put up with for almost nothing in return” shows for itself. Women don’t owe you anything, and maybe that’s your problem with them. You expect them to be complacent and expect them to not have problems or faults but are perfectly fine with having them yourself. You hate women and it shows. This could be another reason why you have a problem with the opposite gender: they realize you have a problem with them. You do not have to put up with women, I’m sure we would not shed a tear if you stop chasing after the female population and preferred to die with male-only companions. Before pointing a finger at others, I’ve found it is better to first search inside. Cause and effect, sir. I’m sure that if they have done you wrong, more times than not it’s because you’ve done something first without realizing it. If all you have found is bad luck with females, chances are the bad luck is you, not them. All the same, I apologize on behalf of them on letting you believe you have abstained from all blame and that it is completely their fault that you have a hard time with them. Of course, this does not mean that evil women don’t exist, or that you haven’t met any. It just means that maybe in your case, the more malevolent of the two may just be you.

    2. Haha. Too bad your father didn’t eschew the company of women. Or was intercourse forced on him? It would have spared your misery (because you wouldn’t have been born) and spared the rest of us from dealing with your crippling egocentrism (def.: the inability to untangle subjective schemas from objective reality; an inability to understand or assume any perspective other than their own.).

  9. I notice that all comments critical of women and their hate for men are deleted. That must be “girl power,” right? The “silenced” women silence the men who denounce the multiple abuses women themselves have committed.

    How is that fair?

    1. Actually, you’re just one of the very misogynists this article is talking about. So shut up now. Isn’t it so funny all the men proving the points of this article every single time they open their mouths?? You are all literally incapable of being decent. Sexism is so rife, you can’t stop hating on women even you were paid to.

  10. You quote a case on Daniel Holtzclaw “The jury, which found him guilty of these crimes, sentenced Holtzclaw to 263 years in prison. The convictions only represented eight of his thirteen accusers. But the white feminist silence around the case in the press, at least initially, was telling—and, I argue, shameful.”

    You’re upset this reprehensible criminal didn’t receive more the 263 years in jail? You are infuriated, “Only 8 of the 13 accusers received convictions?” I don’t know the reason, but perhaps the DA didn’t think the other cases were as strong and chose focus on the ones they were sure would receive a conviction. Seems like the system worked pretty well in this case. 263 years is a pretty strong conviction. 14x more men are in jail as women, which tells me a strong percentage of criminals are being caught and prosecuted. If it’s such a male repressive society wouldn’t you expect most men to not get punished?

  11. Punish me, punish me, for the sins of men
    Let the Darwin monkeys be called to troll,
    That of the moment when my sex was called a man,
    call that mind here that make amends.

  12. Hmmm? Perhaps it is my age showing but am having a hard time finding anything new in this interview and its understandings. The Women’s Movement of the 190-70’s did massive work on unraveling sexism much of it written up in books, articles, novels, science fiction, etc. While taking a philosophers pose around questions of morality, as I understand the interviewee, my take is more sociological and political. The core understanding must be centered in the organization of a society’s social institutions and how they work to maintain themselves. I am also proponent of economic determinism which is simply the fact that all societies organize around their economic structure and are designed to promote that economy. Thus family structures changed as capitalism developed and required more control over its workers and less responsibility for the sustainence of the extended family.

    Sexism is ingrained western society (not ignoring other cultures, just not focusing on them here). Women’s role was designed to reproduce the society; ie, birth more children, and to provide renewal of the energy of male workers. Thus, a professional woman or one who simply works is actually blamed for her stresses due to stepping outside the home. And this is still true altho the language may be a bit more subtle.

    The privilege to men is strong and they fight to the death for that power. For working people of lesser income, this power over women is often the only sense of empowerment they feel, ignoring their racial privilege if they are white. The violence against women is not always physical. Actually the greater violence is the mental and emotional violence which is an ongoing dynamic.

    What is needed is the call to change social structures such that women are not dependent on men for emotional or financial support. Women are still trained into submission in many ways despite the variations that exist. Thus there is room for people to find fault with my comments as they note exceptions. However, I would dare say that closer scrutiny of male/female relationships in all spheres will reveal the same old power relationship whether women submit or struggle against it.

  13. Don’t think anybody has yet commented on this particular bit, which I think is incorrect,
    Guernica: So Clinton’s loss is an example of a woman trying to punch above her station, but failing because misogyny forced her down?

    Kate Manne: Exactly. Hierarchies are really, really hard to shift. And people don’t realize they’re post-hoc rationalizing when they use values like competence or likeability, just to keep [the male opponent] up.

    Rather, I would argue that the only reason Clinton even reached a position where she could run for president is that patriarchy fostered her elevation to that place. Patriarchy often grooms women (and any member of a less-privileged group) to perform according to its rules in order to succeed. This strategy supports patriarchy because the sins of the patriarchy can then be attached to the woman (or other scapegoat) who succeeds on this basis and charged against her personally. In other words, misogyny fosters the elevation of women (or other scapegoat) who perform according to men’s rules so that all the negative values men (patriarchy) embrace and choices men (patriarchy) make can be attached to a woman and blamed on her as personal flaws.

    This is one of the reasons many of us thought she was the worst possible choice to run against Trump. And also why some of us question how “smart” she is.

  14. Clinton won the popular vote. I don’t know why this subject was brought up, it’s far to complicated.

    And No, it’s not because women can’t understand complicated topics.

  15. I thought the argument was clear and articulately put.My question is pretty simple.Why are the massive and hugely beneficial aspects of a more progressive and open society that would result from the end of misogyny and sexism not an easy sell?Why is it so hard to see the freedom that beckons-freedom for all who are constrained by this hideous foot binding.

    1. Correct, it should be an easy sell. Maybe the question is what is in human nature that abhors sharing and thinking of others? It’s a trait that seems to come along with a vengeance about age 7. Nature or nurture?
      This is the twisted mental-emotional equation: ‘If I own other people and their actions and their assets and that means *I* am free’. Corollary: ‘Other people’s freedom is not MY freedom if they come first.’
      Humanity’s mental health has been predicated on mass submission and minority domination for aeons. There are plenty of examples of the obverse as well (populations run by egalitarian principles) but usually the peaceful cities and settlements get overrun by testosterone-fueled ideologies sooner or later.

      1. I figured it sells as an act of self interest.And god knows people have been conditioned to be solipsistic entities. Perhaps a hint that both ends of the chain are holding a human being might surprise someone into letting ownership lapse.

  16. I don’t think there is one major misogynistic conspiracy to keep women in their place. I think lots of groups including but not limited to feminists push their own agenda though and people do get brainwashed even when they think they’re not.

    Ive met men who hate all women, I’ve met men who only hate feminine “weak” women, I’ve met men who only hate strong women. Ive met women who hate all men, women who hate only “alpha” men, women who hate only effeminate men.

    I think the only solution is for people to stop hating each other and let everyone be.

    1. That would be ideal, indeed. Humanity as a whole needs to stop being divided. It is because of all these divisions that identity politics has any impetus at all.

  17. “About 90 percent of white women who are partnered with men are partnered with white men, and that’s according to the most recent Pew statistics I’ve seen. It could have shifted slightly, but that just gives an indication of how homogenous white women’s preferences are, and how racist.”

    White women should look outside their own race for suitable mates, lest they be labeled racist?
    Racial homogeneity is not a conscious process, just as hierarchies are not intentional but consequential.

    I don’t think any sort of militant multiculturalism will improve the human condition. Hate will merely grow more complex and multiform.

    As far as the scene in Fargo, which I haven’t seen, isn’t some dark (*not in a racial sense*) humor and satire to be expected from the Coen Brothers? They’re notorious for fixating on the incomprehensible.

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